What is Love?

[An_Observer]

I am tired of all these trite religious debates. So I bring to you this topic: What is love? Love, like religion, has existed and debated since the beginning of man. And like religion, has had no conclusive proof to prove any of the many theories on it.

But what is to stop us from giving discourse to it. But as a favor, some responses may include a mix of religion. But to avoid the reoccurence of a relgious debate many of these turn into, if you want to counter their claim, be objective about it and don't turn this into a theological debate.

So, let's have at it.

[WeaselDX]

Damnit..I used this concept already . I will think about it, as I can only claim to have loved once in my life, and still love that person. That person said they once loved me, but nolonger. I am not sure how love fades, but I can't be sure of it, because I can't tell you what love is...

I hope to have some interesting comments that will allow me to better develope my thoughts on this.

[An_Observer]

Like Erich Fromm, author of The Art of Loving (although is one of the only things I agree with him on), my personal belief is that there are three types of love:
1) Motherly Love:
The type of love a mother shows for her child.
2) Brotherly Love:
The love between friends
3) Romantic Love:
The love between man and wife; between lovers.

The third is what I am most intrested, for as the other two are rather obvious and without debate. For me, this romantic love can be broken down even further. There is teenage love, so often confused with infatuation. Then there is love, common amongst adults but fleeting. Then there is true love, between husband and life, that lasts until death. I believe the last, is by fate; God's gift. The is relative to "The One" belief I guess.

But one must not be misled by infatuation, more desire that bonified love. The two are often confused. But the best I have heard to determine which is which is, love can wait, infatuation cannot.

[Saffire]

Another interesting topic could be the onset of love; how it starts.

Sometimes people end up loving and marrying someone you've known for years - but the love is latent. They don't realize they love the person until later in the relationship.

And there is the "love at first sight" which I personally am a strong believer in. My uncle found his second wife that way (his first died of a car wreck). This obviously can only involve physical appearance at first - but sometimes you have an idea of what the other person is like through a friend or other mutual aquaintance.

[WeaselDX]

I agree with those 3 stages...but I feel the first too are just by nature or how one was raised.

I know I wasn't infatuated, but maybe she was? Who knows.

I wouldn't say the last is God's gift though...wasn't the pain of childbirth a burden placed on man? If anything it would be more of a curse, especially if you love someone that doesn't love you back.

[An_Observer]

The true love I speak of is reciprocal. How could that type of love be anything else but a blessing?

[jitspoe]

Love doesn't exist because you can't prove it.



Just applying a little Wyzaard logic to a different subject.

[Wyzaard]

And again you fail to use it on the correct entities.

'Love' can be framed as a social convention, a mix of neurochemicals, etc... etc... lots of bio-social mixes here, no need of supernatural tomfoolery.

[Kawen]

Originally posted by jitspoe
Love doesn't exist because you can't prove it.



Just applying a little Wyzaard logic to a different subject.

ROFLMAO.

[Saffire]

Wyz, how do you explain consciousness? I mean, it's a simple thought - the fact that we know we exist and think about the nature of our existance... is that merely a trait of extremely complex robots? Biological entities?

Science can't account for it. If we were merely the sum of our parts, there's no way we could ever really be thinking... is there? We'd be automatons. Free will and consciousness are joined at the hip as far as I'm concerned.

[Ami]

I believe that love is a mix of the brain &, thus, body's reaction to images and pheramones (sp?). It can be either what we visualize someone as in our mind ('true' love) or how our eyes perceive it and when senses are overwhelmed by it ('blind' love).

As with true love, the sense of need for this pleasant image/perception of a person to continue is perpetuated through courtship and other social and private rituals.

In the other case, the sudden changes brought on by the stimuli (the subject of the 'blind love') cause people to act tactlessly or otherwise differently. Blind love often causes a person to feel overwhelmed, which may be affected by neurological chemicals. The change in levels of these chemicals may alter the body's functions.. such as an increased amount of endorphin (sp?) and heartrate.. which may increase or decrease depending on stress levels, oxygen, and blood flow.
This is logical, since blind love often causes people to do irrational things. This change of behavior may be due to the changes in oxygen intake/exhalation, increased heartrate, and increased endorphins. The body cannot easily adapt to the sudden changes and often the victim finds it difficult to speak, think, or move as gracefully as before the 'blind love' came into effect.

Some forms of depression may alter the body's perception of love. As depression is sometimes caused by neurological mistakes/problems, blind love may cause fewer [or more] inhibitions with the body, depending on the type of depression and the overall health of the 'victim'. The pheramones might not take a clear path in a clouded mind.

Also, true love might only be acquired with difficulty due to the 'symptoms' (drowsyness, difficulty focusing, etc.) of some types of depression altering the rate at which the brain processes images and 'emotions' (reactions).

yeah. iunno. that's what i think.

--ami

[WeaselDX]

Originally posted by Saffire
Free will and consciousness are joined at the hip as far as I'm concerned.

Again there is a questoin as to whether we have "free will"

[WeaselDX]

Originally posted by Ami
I believe that love is a mix of the brain &, thus, body's reaction to images and pheramones (sp?). It can be either what we visualize someone as in our mind ('true' love) or how our eyes perceive it and when senses are overwhelmed by it ('blind' love).

As with true love, the sense of need for this pleasant image/perception of a person to continue is perpetuated through courtship and other social and private rituals.

In the other case, the sudden changes brought on by the stimuli (the subject of the 'blind love') cause people to act tactlessly or otherwise differently. Blind love often causes a person to feel overwhelmed, which may be affected by neurological chemicals. The change in levels of these chemicals may alter the body's functions.. such as an increased amount of endorphin (sp?) and heartrate.. which may increase or decrease depending on stress levels, oxygen, and blood flow.
This is logical, since blind love often causes people to do irrational things. This change of behavior may be due to the changes in oxygen intake/exhalation, increased heartrate, and increased endorphins. The body cannot easily adapt to the sudden changes and often the victim finds it difficult to speak, think, or move as gracefully as before the 'blind love' came into effect.

Some forms of depression may alter the body's perception of love. As depression is sometimes caused by neurological mistakes/problems, blind love may cause fewer [or more] inhibitions with the body, depending on the type of depression and the overall health of the 'victim'. The pheramones might not take a clear path in a clouded mind.

Also, true love might only be acquired with difficulty due to the 'symptoms' (drowsyness, difficulty focusing, etc.) of some types of depression altering the rate at which the brain processes images and 'emotions' (reactions).

yeah. iunno. that's what i think.

--ami

Interesting...do you have any idea why/what simuli causes these reactions...`specially if it only occurs with "some" people? IE: My strong feelings for one indivdual...yet not able to feel these with someone else? What makes me react/feel about that certain individual at that time, if there are so many around me?

[Ami]

Originally posted by WeaselDX
Interesting...do you have any idea why/what simuli causes these reactions...`specially if it only occurs with "some" people? IE: My strong feelings for one indivdual...yet not able to feel these with someone else? What makes me react/feel about that certain individual at that time, if there are so many around me?

Well, it would probably just be whether or not it pleases your mind and/or eyes .. and that would rely on your own opinions on what is attractive traits and such. Such as why gay guys aren't turned on by chiks, cuz it (the thought of females) is NOT contained in their multitude of thoughts that a female = beauty/love. Instead, their own reactions, psychological and/or physical, have shown them (and tattoed in their mind) that male = beauty/love.

edit: more in depth...

It's all due to traits that your mind and eyes note and thus react. Animals can smell fear. Humans are animals. However, we do not KNOW the scent of fear because it has not been needed in so long. Your brain can sense far more things than you think, but you may not be able to sort them all out or even understand some of them. It's like looking at a picture and knowing something is wrong. It's like "Where's Waldo?" but more like "What is it about this person?" and instead of hundreds of people in a photo, it is infinite characteristics. This sense of being attracted to characteristics is how evolution and adaptation occurred, creatures sought out/found certain individuals and bred with them, creating a finite gene pool.
On another, but perhaps related, note, it has been scientifically proven that, in animals that can see color, red is often a color used for attraction. That is one aspect of attraction. It took humans a while to realize that one.. and how long will it take science to find others? Who knows.
I can't tell you why exactly you like someone. Science probably can't even tell you yet. It's just something that your eyes and/or brain notice and it keeps you captivated for a period of time, perhaps forever.

--ami

[Saffire]

You are all talking about stimuli that would cause love.

I'm pointing out that input stimuli don't necessarily cause the same reactions - if they did, then we are on a basic level just machines. We accept "input" and give an "output" in response.

But we are something beyond this. Because we are conscious as well, and sometimes we do things that are irrational. Often, this is for love.